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 Trivia Archive 3

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ONEHOTMARE

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:31 pm

There was another organist between Jimmy and Larry...don't recall his name...a young and nice lookin' guy. As S61 stated...he wasn't there long.

When E returns, bet he can tell us how many shows Shocker made.
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smitty
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:13 pm

Sensation61, I believe Earl Gregory is who you are thinking of. He also played at the Celebration between Richardson and Bright. I think he's the one who made the "train" sound. He played a lot of shows in Ky, both Walking and Saddlebred. I always thought he was entertaining and pretty darn good. Leon Cole of Nashville played at the Celebration for several years in the 1940's. There may have been more.
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sensation61

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:45 pm

Yes, he's the one I was thinking about. I knew you'd know who I was speaking of.
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Old Graymare

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:34 pm

Sadlbum, I know Smitty does not like controversy on here, but I feel led to address your comments about Betty Sain. I don't think you understand about things that went on in those days (and perhaps still do). The very idea of a young LADY taking a STALLION into the Championship class was just beyond what many of those trainers could take. Plus that, the fact that they knew she could get a crowd behind her (evidenced by her horses at one night shows) was even more intimidating. Women did not compete against the men in those days unless it was in an amateur class. Women's lib was NOT alive and well in the walking horse world. Betty was a VERY independent young lady. Her horses WERE her life. She was good friends with my neighbors and I was around her quite a bit in the years before Shocker won. I did not see her much afterwards because that was about the time I was away from the horse business for a good while. Was Shocker the best horse to ever be the Champion? Probably not. BUT on that night, he outlasted everything in that field. A couple of the men tried desperately to hurt her and her horse. They cut in front of her on the turns and surrounded her on the straight. It was scary (but I will admit, exciting). They lost sight of trying to keep control of their own horse in an effort to make hers do something wrong. But she just kept sitting there with her heels in that horse's flanks and ignored it all. Every time she asked him for more, he gave it and never broke stride. They tried to work them to death, but it only worked in her favor. The others were exhausted and he kept getting better. It was like a fairy tale... the little blond girl in the red coat and the big black stallion. And the crowd went wild!!!! The judges had no choice but to tie him or suffer an uprising of giant magnitudes. After the show, they tried to buy him but he was her baby and she refused to sell. I heard from straight sources that she turned down BIG BUCKS!! She wouldn't play their game and they couldn't have their way, so they told her they would boycott her in the breeding shed and they did. He didn't get many mares and certainly never got his share of the top ones. I heard there were threats against her life and the horse's life. There were many influential people who were NOT happy!! She brought him back b/c he was only 4 when he won and she felt she had a point to prove. That was a mistake b/c they did exactly what they said they would do and no judge would tie him first again....deserved or not. Yes, she was wrong to keep bringing him back because she refused to sore him (or any of her horses for that matter) and he looked out of place with those that were. Her Dad died and the money soon ran out. She was always an outcast of sorts. I somehow got the impression that she liked her solitude. It is a sad story. I always liked Betty. She was nice to me. Somebody could even now make a good movie or novel about it all, but Betty probably would still not allow it. She always was a very private person. I am sure Everett knows even more of the story than I do. I am sorry to take so much space to write, but I just couldn't let those remarks about her go on unaddressed. There was just a lot more that went on than you, or even I, know about. So I don't think it is fair of us to judge her without walking in her shoes.
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The Man in Black

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:05 pm

I was not there in 66 when SS won the WGC so I can't give a personal opinion. However, I know that David Welsh who was a judge at the Celebration that year and someone whom I have great respect for, said SS was the best horse in the class that year when all was said and done. Nuff said as far as I am concerned.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:53 pm

Jack Moorman and David Welch both sayed if you was standing in center ring and feel the groung shaking you would tied him to.
The judges was off of the show ground before his number was called. Per there request.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:27 am

Here's a quote David Welsh made in a Voice article written about him back in 2005:

“I judged the year Betty Sain won, it was very controversial. I’m not one to shy away from controversy. I always believed that when you’re judging a horse you don’t judge based on what they did last week or what they were going to do next week. You judge what they do that night. That night, that horse (Shaker’s Shocker) won that class.”

1966 WGC Results

1. Shaker's Shocker
2. Go Boy's Chatterbox
3. Go Boy's Sun Dust
4. Duke's Handy Man
5. Johnny Midnight
6. Magic Knight
7. Merry Boy's Secret
8. Cotton Queen's Go Boy
9. April Love
19. Jet's Fair Play

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rhinestone

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:28 pm

I was 9 the year that SS won. I still remember the excitement in the air. Too bad there is not a fraction of the excitement now on stake night that there was that night. Back then the stands were packed and there was standing room only.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:42 pm

I will echo that! If I live to be a hundred, I don't think that I will forget that night - Bedford County was VIBRATING that night. Memories like that are PRICELESS!
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:26 pm

I think I said this before, if I could spend the day with one person in the walking horse world it would be her. To play the game and win what is left that could be anymore satisfying than that... Very Happy

Also in the above post at the bottom of the list there is a Fair Play horse can anyone tell me about the orgins of the Fair Play... :scratch:
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:15 am

I appreciate everything that Ya'll have said about Betty Sain & Shakers Shocker. I wasn't there in 66. I was there in 67 & 68 when they showed. Still can't imagine how they ever won. You don't have to pour oil of mustard on a horse to sore it. SS was wearing knocker boots, just like the rest of the field! When they came up in the RW, those things banged against his ankles & made him sensitive, just like the other horses & he did more & more, nuff said. Lets go on.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:42 pm

SB I feel that I have to speak up here. Do you not feel that it may have been in poor taste to infer that Shaker's Shocker was sore? I know that I would personally feel very hurt or offended if the same reference was made about one of my horses.
We have no idea who logs on to this site - for all we know members of the Sain family may be reading these remarks.
If you could, to avoid insulting others, try being a little more considerate with your posts.
Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:43 pm

I feel like I need to chime in, but don't know where to begin. Just a few observations from being in and around the WH business from 62-96 or so. There are always those that try to make excuses for, and rationalize, why a horse wins. Many do not agree with the chosen winners. Truth is, there is usually jealousy, sour grapes and a host of other excuses made. There are many horses who have won WC that many tried to discredit. I have been guilty of this also. I know David Welsh well and if he tied Shakers Shocker first, then he thought he won. If SS went running walk in a big way, that probably helped David make his decision. David liked a horse to go running walk. (Sound of Fury). As far as the "knocker boots", I've got news for you, they were just a little (very little) better than smooth bell boots. They weren't reponsible for anything but slicking the hair off. When the USDA gave us the 10oz. chain, it was because Hill's Perfection proved that a sound horse in a 10 oz. chain was better by far than any other horse that was sored and using a boot of ANY type. The best example of this is in watching the 1975 Clelebration(first year for chains) versus the 73 or 74 or earlier.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:03 pm

All that really matters is that he won that night. It was an exciting show, one that many of us will never forget. I remember my dad saying that he would have tied him too. However, he said that if he were taking one home he would take Johnny Midnight.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:58 am

ok........let's move on.

In 1942, how many nights of horse show competition did the Celebration offer?







Question
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sadlbum

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:15 am

1942 had 3 nights of showing, with some morning classes also.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon May 03, 2010 9:05 pm

In 1960, The TWHBEA Officers and President favored either further study or abolition of all boots on the TWH.
The quarter boot had just been substituted in March of that year, for bell boots.
An opposing force, led by a well-known and popular trainer wanted to go back to using the bell boot.

Who was that trainer?





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The Man in Black

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon May 03, 2010 11:25 pm

Steve Hill?
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Mon May 03, 2010 11:25 pm

Good guess.........but not Steve.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue May 04, 2010 8:12 am

The answer to that question is Vic Thompson. There is a quite a story behind that trivia question. It can be explained in a short article published in the June 13, 1960 edition of Sports Illustrated shown below. I don't usually post stuff that I feel will lead to discord, but this article appeared in a national magazine, has some historical value and is also quite interesting and amusing, in my opinion.




Hot Heads Over Hot Feet
A wild meeting in Tennessee ended in a close victory for the put-upon Walking Horse


"The most celebrated sore feet on the sporting scene may belong to Dr. Barbara Moore, that peripatetic Englishwoman who is at present walking across the U.S., but the man-inflicted foot troubles of the Tennessee Walking Horse (SI, May 16) have caused the sorest heads.

Gathering in Lewisburg, Tenn. a fortnight ago, members of the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders Association staged an annual meeting that was just about as well organized as a train wreck and twice as noisy. When the noise had abated, the association still had its old officers, but it also had a scrubbed-up set of bylaws that meant only one thing: the day when trainers can with impunity sore a walking horse in order to win a show has just about passed. The association provided stringent penalties for offenders. If proved guilty, they may be banned completely from TWHBA-recognized show rings. If proved guilty on several occasions, the offenders could be banned indefinitely from the show horse business.

The official agenda of the Lewisburg meeting called for election of officers and reconsideration of the quarter-boot substituted in March for the old, sour-ringing bell boot. The incumbent slate of officers, headed by President J. Glenn Turner of Dallas, favored either further study or abolition of all boots. An opposing group led by Trainer Vic Thompson wanted to go back to the bell boot.

Since both sides had indulged in premeeting denunciations, it was hardly surprising that violence broke out. Fortunately, it was not of long duration, nor was it serious. During a heated verbal exchange, Tom Fulton, onetime undertaker and present executive secretary of the TWHBA, clipped W. O. Crawford, a former candidate for the presidency of the organization, on the head and felled him. The fight did not spread, and when the stand-up votes were counted the incumbents were still in office by 50 votes.

The election did not, however, end the acrimony. President Turner accused the Thompson-Crawford forces of trying to break up the meeting to prevent a vote. Somebody, for example, turned on the heating system instead of the air conditioner. "Ten or 15 created all the commotion," said John Amos, chairman of the TWHBA executive committee. "They stomped around the room cursing and trying to vote twice, and did cause several people to leave."

Thompson charged, in rebuttal, that Amos had packed the meeting with 60 coal miners from eastern Tennessee and Kentucky. These alleged miners arrived early on meeting day in two chartered buses. They told reporters they were horse lovers.

Last week the defeated Thompson still seemed determined to regain his right to keep the old way. From Oklahoma, where he was showing last week, he announced plans for a new association which would blackball any show in which 1) J. Glenn Turner's horses were entered and 2) any show that hires an association-approved judge.

This clearly is a desperation move. Some scare-easy managers may find excuses to return Turner's entries, but others probably will simply drop the entire division—and with great relief. Just this week the American Horse Shows Association, governing body for most of the major horse shows in this country, acted to plug one loophole that had permitted wide latitude to the bell booters. No longer can "guest judges," not subject to ASHA rules, be imported to judge—and overlook—sore walking horses.

While Thompson's supporters were busy deciding just how to cut off their noses to spite their faces, J. Glenn Turner, Amos and crew went into executive session and made some sweeping amendments to TWHBA bylaws, chief among them:

1) The executive committee may suspend members of the association for crude or uncouth conduct, or for making false or misleading statements about the association or its officers.
2) Officers will be elected for two years rather than one.
3) Responsibility henceforth will be placed where it rightfully belongs—on the horse owner. He can no longer claim he does not know about the condition of his horses. So where formerly a sore horse was merely disqualified, now the horse, the trainer and the owner can be disbarred.

"The gloves are off now," said John Amos. "We plan a rough-handed campaign against soring. Our changed bylaws give us the authority to act and punish. And we will."
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senator69

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PostSubject: trivia   Tue May 04, 2010 8:26 am

Good article Smitty,I was just a teenager only being involved in the industry about 3 yrs. back then,but I remember the problems with Vic and J. Glenn.Back then it was nothing to go to a show and have a fight or two break out.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue May 04, 2010 2:27 pm

Smitty, Are we to assume that the 42 Cel. was only 3 nights long?
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue May 04, 2010 3:42 pm

SB,

If'n you said it............it MUST BE SO!!! Wink
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The Man in Black

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue May 04, 2010 7:22 pm

Name the horse and rider that won the stud class at the 39 Celebration. Question
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 3   Tue May 04, 2010 8:50 pm

Haynes Allen with Clarence Haynes aboard, won the 4 yr old & over stallion & stallion Championship classes in 1939. He was a character that would be hard for me to forget. He dealt in memorabilia when I first tried to put a set of B R year books together. He ended up living in Gov't housing in Shelbyville, was a high roller in the 30's & 40's.
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