Trivia Archive 1

This is the first original Walking Horse Trivia post of any significance on the Internet.

It was started about 3 years ago by Sara Lynn Bledsoe on the WHR message board. It was some of the greatest horse conversation I have ever seen online. Many of the members of this board were active in that thread, including Everett, Bubbadog, Sadlbum, Grits, Graymare and Jean. I believe Sable was also involved, as was myself, to a lesser degree. Mason was also there. I think Sadlbum called himself Saddletramp and Jean called herself Mini Me back then, if I'm not mistaken. There may have been other members of our board involved as well. Unfortunately, Sara Lynn declined to join us. Most of the folks active in that thread left the WHR due to their "very sudden" policy of charging for the internet site, as well as the newspaper. That was not satisfactory to many of us, and one of us opened his big mouth and suggested that one of us start our OWN trivia site. Well, that someone was me, and as it was too late to get my foot out of my mouth, your's truly was elected to start what became Walking Horse Trivia. In retrospect, it was the best thing that could have happened.

SO.......once again, for the upteenth time, I am again posting that memorable thread, but this time I will only be posting about 1 page of it per week. More importantly, this time I AM ALLOWING EVERYONE TO MAKE COMMENTS on what has been posted every week. I think you will find it most interesting, and I think you will have something to say.

Let's go back in time and review the days from somewhere else.......the inspiration, if you will, for this site:

(PAGE ONE)

twhlady

What trainer first braced a tail on the TWH?

What trainer first used a pad on a TWH? What was the horse?

Does anyone have a set of antique registration papers that were first issued through the Saddle Horse Registry before the organization of TWHBEA?


C. Biscuit


Tail brace - Winston Wiser pads Steve Hill on Talk of the Town just guessing




I'm not sure about the pads, but I believe Go Boy's Shadow with W W riding was the first WGC to win wearing
action devices,{boots}.

dani


Looking back through the pictures of the WGC's, it looks like Setting Sun, Sam Paschal up, was wearing a pad and shoe along with boots. But I do believe that Ebony's Senator was the first to wear pads.

J441


Senator was champ in '69. I saw pads waaayyy back in the early 60's. Yes, I really am ancient...

Go to "The Echo of Hoofbeats" by Dr. Bob Womack (published by Dabora) and you'll find a lot of information on the evolution, both good and bad, of the industry.

Saddle Tramp


Go Boy's Shadow won the Celebration in 1955 with a plantation shoe. In 1956, he won it with a pad. Talk of the Town won with plantation shoes (51, 52 & 53), but later on a Mr. Jones from GA showed him with pads in Amateur classes. Go Boy's Shadow was one of the first horses to show with knocker boots.

There were horses shown in 1939 with braced tails, but Winston Wiser was not one of the premier trainers then.

This information doesn't come from being there, but comes from studying all the old Blue Ribbon magazines and talking to the old time trainers. I do have one of the first format registration papers but it isn't TWHBEA. It was TWHBA (the exhibitors had not been added yet). The papers just have sire and dam - not the tree.

twhlady


Saddle Tramp:

I remember seeing papers for horses I once knew - Brown Allen Spot (mare), and Eastern Star (mare) and Merry Maker's Dawn (mare) - all of whom were sired by foundation stallions and out of foundation dams. The papers for these mares - and some others that I cannot remember - were issued through the Saddle Horse registry and were framed and matted quite nicely. These mares were still breeding and producing when I first became involved with the TWH industry.

For some years the earilest horses were registered in that manner. I can imagine that any old papers of that type would be collectors items now.

I was far more interested in the geneaology of the breed than any of the technical aspects, even though I did have the privilege of knowing many of the earliest great trainers - almost all of them gone now...........

I imagine that JT Leech is probably the oldest living trainer.

MINI ME


twhlady
If you will get in touch with me at elee@vci.net
I have some questions about some old time horses
Thanks

twistedtails


You know who to ask about that is ole Jimmy Lackey. He told me once who first cut tails, on his mothers' horse way way back. His family started showing walkers before they were called walkers, I think from the turn of the century last. I mean if they aren't, his family should be included in the history of walking horses. That old barn of his in Forest should be made into a museum. Anyway ... He is either in the phone book in Forest MS at his hardware store, if he still has it, or here in Shelbyville somewhere. And congrats Jimmy on your and Carol's wins at the Celebration.

Mason


According to Steve Hill Bob Waggoner made the first tail brace....Bob Worked for Steve I think two different times...I remember him being there in the fifties...Bob went from Beechgrove to Va ...and spent the rest of his life there
Mason

Mason


Seems no bodys interested in our History but a VERY FEW of us...makes you wonder about the future when people arent interested in what got em here(?)
I guess I'm old (KNOW I AM!!)But I'm more interested in what happened in 1939-1960 than what happened last week.....that dates you doesnt it?
Mason

grits

did anyone see the certificate of registration on e-bay it is dated 1957 pretty cool huh

twhlady


David:
Where was the first horse show for the TWH?
Were the first show rings round instead of an oval?
I guess Mr. Frates - Oklahoma City - was the oldest person to ever compete?
Or maybe the oldest was Preach's customer from FL who grew oranges - can't remember his name.
Sarah Lynn




Was that Mr. L. Frank Roper?

Mason


That was either Mr. Roper of Mr. Bradshaw....I talked to Casey Jones today and we THOUGHT it was Bradshaw(?)As for the first Walking horse show...Maybe (?) around the little bldg in the center of Wartrace.....Eagleville Tn was supposed to have had the first night horseshow...they strung electric when they first came in
Mason

Oopsfan


I read Dr Womacks book. It was wonderful! Very informative but I had to basically beg my way into buying one through MTSU. I could not find it anywhere! It was nice to see all the information just laid right out there chronologically. I learned a ton from that book and recommend it to any TWH breeder, exhibitor, lover, and trainer!

twhlady


David and Moonglow..........

THANKS SO MUCH. (With age some of the information indexed in my brain is becoming somewhat foggy.)

It was Mr. Frank Roper that was Preach's customer.
I also remember he and Mrs. Roper celebrated their 50th anniversary one year at Montgomery - the same day he won the Amateur Championship........he was old then.

Was it Mr. Roper or Mr. Frates who was older when they last showed........

This Walking Horse Industry has really enjoyed the participation of some truly fantastic people throghout all these years.

And back then..........we did not have all the bickering and angst.........HHHMMMMMMMMM ! ! !

Sarah Lynn




Mr. Roper showed a mare named Sun's Angel. Preach had her and Steve Hill also had her.
Get Mr. Frates and Mr. Roper's reg. # and I can look them up on IPEDS and find out who was older.

Mason


Someone just reminded me of another of Preachs' riders...R.D.Keene(Keenes Go Boy)I have forgotten that one.
Mason

twhlady


David -
Who was the lady rider - I think from Missouri or Kansas....who put the tongue depressor into her boot - had the sole slit so it would go in firmly. She had to have assistance reaching to cue her horse to canter. She was small and short....Maxine something or other maybe???

She never missed the canter. We sat on the rail on the south end....and I saw her 'rider assistance' firmly affixed in her shoe - quite innovative.

And remember all the beautiful canters?????????

Even the youth had to canter.......

Wish there were more canter classes now. I guess there are many riders who cannot pereform the third gait.

And speaking of Steve Hill - I remember going to his barn one afternoon - and there sat Minnie Pearl - aka Sarah Cannon. And the guy that played the saxaphone Boots something or other........

sarah lynn

kywalker


I think "Boots" was probably Boots Randolph. Steve Hill gave me a show ring lesson in Paducah, KY. early in my showing - Don't let your competition get behind you, the judge will never see you.




I don't remember the tongue depressor, but I do remember a lady rider from Missouri named Maxine Johnson who rode Magic Knight out of Vic Thompson's barn. He was WC gelding from 1966-1968.

twhlady


Exactly right Moonglow. Thank you.

Maxine Johnson - and I do believe she was from KC, MO.
I vividly remember the tongue depressor. Vic was quite innovative..........remember Deedy's sequins the first year she had the sequined coat???????

Vic also was quite a promoter of the horse we all love so well.......

sarahlynn

howarddavidl


Does anyone remember Forrest Cates, an amateur exhibitor out of the Chattanooga, Tennessee, who showed for years and was legally blind?

twhlady


Yes, David....

I remember Mr. Cates well. Truly a great advocate of the TWH. We purchased from him Delight's Clipper, a horse he owned and showed, through Billy Gray for Jack Mitchell's nephew many years ago.

Mr. Cates was blind due to diabetes.

(Diabetes has dramatically impacted my family recently.) And you will remember that I promoted an annual show for the benefit of Diabetes for Dr. Boshell.....

Incidentally, the last edition of The Veterinarian,the quarterly magazine from the College Veterinary Medicine, Auburn University, presents an article concerning $2,000,000 presented to Auburn from the Diabetes Foundation that Dr. Bo established so long ago.....All of these monies are for research.

Some of this nice contribution to Auburn was money generated from the Tennessee Walking Horse being used as the catalyst for fundraising via the horse show....a means whereby our performance industry continues to impact society....

Forrest Cates was a prince of a man, gentle in every way, both a scholar and a diplomat. And he loved the TWH.

I am sure you knew him well.

It is so nice to remember all these individuals who have so positively impacted both our industry and our memories.

sarahlynn

Feel free to make comments on the above post. A new page will be posted once a week on Sunday nights.

(PAGE 2)

lola

Does anyone remember "Gypsy Bob"?He goes back to the days of Merry Go Boy.He sold a formula that he concocted and put up in pint whiskey bottles.He was probably single handily responsible for a lot of todays problems.The linament was called Bob's Gypsy Rub--it had a very strong smell.He traveled in an old beat up vehicle that he lived in.He traveled to most of the Tn. shows and always sold out of his product as soon as he got to the shows.He was a very old man when Merry Go Boy was showing.


sable812

I showed with Maxine Johnson. I don't remember her having a tongue depressor in her shoes to canter. Maxine wasn't real small either. She wasn't big or small. She was a great show person.
I remember Sherri Deitz's mint green riding suit on Reve. What a gorgeous pair. I know they aren't old timers, but they bring good memories.


I remember that Sherri used to have real long pigtails that came down to her waist and Reve was a walking dude, probably the best pony ever.
Wasn't it Judy Tillett that used to show in either a bright red or orange day coat?
I wasn't around when it happened, but I seem to recall a picture of Vic Thompson showing in his army uniform at the Celebration.


twhlady

Sherri has always been one of the industry's foremost female equestrians.........undisputedly winning in several divisions.
It is good to see Joe Deitz elected to the Breeders' Board...........extremely good people, devoted to the industry.
sarahlynn


jwalker

I always heard that Steve Hill was the first to do any soring on Walking horses. What was used? I don't know. Vic Thompson was a true hero and salesman for the Walking Horse. He advertised heavily in National Horseman and Saddle & Bridle magazines which were distributed all over the USA. Back in the 1940's, 1950's and even into the 1960's Walking Horses were shown at the Chicago International, American Royal, New York National and other huge shows in this country. This was a great advertising for the breed. But money and greed and gotten into play and has almost destroyed this wonder breed. I hope I didn't offend anyone because I love the breed and hope things can be worked out.


twhlady

It was neither money nor greed that removed our horse from the major equine showcases in this nation.
When the Horse Protection Act became law, our industry fell from grace............and we have never recovered.
The American Horse Show Association refused to include our breed in any of the shows they produced.....Sad to say, but we have never recovered that ground, though efforts are being made. Charles Hulsey had made some very strong inroads to achieve recognition for us......
I sincerely hope that the Facilitation Group and National Horse Protection Society can assist towards this accomplishment.
I remember the Kansas City Royal.........and shows like that...in which we have never again been included.
SAD.

sarah lynn


ddfarms

This is very interesting board, probally my favorite ever! I have only been around the "show" walking horse for about 8 yrs. I had trail for years before that. But it is great hearing about the legends from the past who are still impacting us now. I am interested in the book mentioned above any ideas as where to get one? It was mentioned they are hard to come by so anyone with info that would be so great.
Sounds like a lot of great info to be shared still yet. Keep it coming folks, many of us will join in as we learn more and more. Oh yea and Lets try to keep this one board a positive one, I see some have already started to stir it up but oh well.


jwalker

What brought on the Horse Protection Act? Money and Greed! Someone just trying to get a better horse to win with. I think the trainers at that time thought if they had winners in the show ring that they would have more customers. To get winners they had to do some awful things. I can remember back in 1970 at the Sale of Showring Champions a young man was selling a Walking Pony and he came in the Big tent with the pony and actual blood was coming from sores on the coronet band because of chains. I know the chains didn't cause the bleeding some some kind of soring agent had been used in the past to cause the Huge callous'. I said all of this to say that in the public eye that was not using good common sense. No wonder the animal rights groups really demanded something done about the Walking Horse! I remember a lot of people using shoe polish and blood stopper on their horse's callous's to stop bleeding from boots. But they used this to cover this up from the public. I think the Walking Horse groups should try and get back to the basics, such as Flat-Shod horses only, to get back in good standings with the AHSA and show what a wonderful breed the Walking Horse is. Absolutely no sore horses and make sure the DGP's see to it.


sable812

I have a large round silver footed tray from the Chicago International Show. It also says Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders Association on it. It is a very nice, ornate heavy piece. The old silver seems so much nicer than the silver of today.
I would love to find out more information on it, when it was won and what class and maybe who won it.
The try was found at an antique dealer in NC.
Can anyone help me.


twhlady

JAYWALKER;
I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO IDENTIFY TO THE INDUSTRY JUST EXACTLY THE
ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE ! ! !
If you will remember, 1970 was the year of HPA. AND THANKS TO THE DILIGENT EFFORTS OF OUR ENTIRE INDUSTRY, GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE. WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS TANTAMOUNT TO "BEATING A DEAD HORSE." And everyone recognizes that fact.
Sarah Lynn Bledsoe


jwalker

Does the silver tray you found have any dates on it. If not it will be very hard to find out. Walking Horses were shown many years at the Chicago International.


sable812

there is no date on the silver tray.



TWHBEA might have some records on when they gave trophies to that show. Call and ask to speak to Sharon Brandon, she has always been helpful to me.

Mason


Jwalker...In answer to your Steve Hill question.....I've been around for many yrs.....Steve Hill was NOT the first....IN Fact He was one of the soundest training HORSEMEN of his time.....I KNOW that for a fact.I was around his stable from a small child until his passing.Steve was active and successful through more changes in this industry than anyone I knew of.There were lots of HORSEMEN in this industry yrs ago...you dont see as many of them (HORSEMEN) now.We've lost lots of the class acts!

Mason


jwalker

You're probably right. That is what I was told by a Walking Horse historian years ago. When did soring begin? In years gone by the judges always asked that the boots be removed during the line-up. What was this for, never did understand why! Could the Judge disqualify a horse for scars or something. I never saw a horse leave the ring because of this. By the way, what happened to the person at this years celebration that had the blocks under the hoofs of a Walking Horse that was found by one of the VMO's? I read that on Walking Horse Report somewhere. I don't think this helped this years show either.


twhlady

I think that was a flat shod person........and it was not at the Celebration, this happened at the pleasure division at the International held in August before the Celebration. I think this person is suspended and will face other stringent penalties........(this is what I was told).


J441

David, wasn't Forrest Cate's horse called Ridgeleas' Delight? I now have Forrest's Celebration box.

Mason, I agree with you about Steve Hill training clean. We bought several horses from him & they were the same weeks after we got them home as they were when we bought them. Very clean feet & most could pass today's inspections.
By the way, you never know who is behind a screen name. I knew twhlady and I agreed on just too many points.
Sarah Lynn is a long time family friend.
Good to hear from you, Sarah Lynn!
Richard Hickey


twhlady

Richard - glad to know exactly who you are. Good to chat with you. No wonder we have so many ideas that are similar............You, like I, have always been most concerned about the future of our great horse.
As for Deilght's Clipper that was owned by Mr. Cates: This was one of the last horses that he owned. Billy Gray sold him to David for Jack's nephew to show. We always thought of Mr. Cates when getting this nice horse ready to show........way back in the 1980's.
Sarah Lynn


twhlady

Speaking about Mr. Cates, do any of you remember the information spot concerning diabetes and featuring Mr. Cates and his seeing-eye dog that was aired on network TV all across this country?
Actually our industry has enjoyed the participation of so many individuals throughout the years who have impacted not just our industry, but the welfare of our entire nation and countless human beings.
I hope David Howard will give us some more individuals about whom we might reminisce............
David Mason can also sign on to this idea, because he was involved for so long with the breed - and personally knew countless great individuals who are now gone..........
Another person is Dr. Boshell - who was, during all his time in our industry a very interesting man........He was an avid enthusiast for the TWH. Dr. Bo was first a grad of Auburn - previous to Harvard (and also West Point....).
I receive The Veterinarian (formerly published as CVM Quarterly) the quarterly publication from College of Veterinary Medicine, Auburn University. In the most recent publication there is an article about Dr. Bo and Martha, their involvement with horses, and various other passions they both enjoyed. This article also features the presentation of a $2,000,000 endowment from the Diabetes Foundation.........some of which came from the horse shows that were promoted for diabetes.......and which monies came from the TWH. This endowment will support research.
SO MUCH GOOD HAS BEEN DONE AND SO MUCH MONEY RAISED ALL ACROSS THIS LAND BY OUR GREAT BREED - MONEY THAT IS/HAS BEEN USED FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MANKIND.........AND THE FUND RAISING VEHICLE HAS BEEN THE GREAT TENNESSEE WALKING HORSE AND THOSE FANTASTIC INDIVIDUALS THEREBY ASSOCIATED.
This is so often forgotten.........sad to say.

Sarah Lynn


twhlady,

Information I stumbled on (read it from a research paper from Ole Miss writing about horses traded out of Vicksburg between 1830 and 1920) you may or may not agree, and this is for conversation only but, there is some links in walking horse history missing. Black slaves who were the horse trainers of that time, (who some feel actually developed the plantation horse) and grooms had already developed a fancy gait with pacers popular in the 1800's and this involved, "juicing" the feet so they could be ridden. As we all know, you can't ride a pacer. They had thier own shows kinda. Early gypsies took a liking to these saddlers and bought them to pull wagons and people could hear them coming. This is where Vicksburg came in because there was a big horse auction house there run by one family for over 100 years and traded these horses. Somewhere, someone stumbled on shoes made in the 1880's that were wood stacked. The history account tells of riders that would clump up and down the roads making as much noise (chains?) as they could. the more noise the better. They were found along the Mississippi river. As things evolve from barn to barn, show to show, bits and pieces get used and some methods stay on. It is not a secret that harness racers or "roadster" juiced the feet, and still do. Point is I personally, I mean just my own personal opinion, do not think there is a single person showed up one day at a show with a juiced horse. It is methodology that evolved over time and maybe someone in particular took it over the top. Obviously, a whole bunch of Walker people took it over the top. There is a deep deep culture and history in this horse and the people in its' culture. Quite fascinating.


Saddle Tramp

Dr. Boshell owned Pride's Jubilee Star at one time and showed him amateur. He also owned Arabian horses. He judged the Westminster Kennel dog show at Madison Square Garden. The name of his farm was Bo-Mar Farms. He was a man of many interests.


Curly

Sable, Maxine Johnson was one in a million. She was a very interesting woman, who didn't take a bit of bull off anyone.
Vic Thompson used to rope off his grooming area at the barn to keep people out, including customers. Maxine walking into the barn, strode over to the rope and stepped over. AS she did so, she said I pay the bills and if I want to go in, there is no rope keeping me out (or something to that effect).
She could certainly keep her horses in show shape too. She frequently brought horses to Missouri that Vic trained for her and showed them; they always looked just as good.


twhlady

Twistedtails, I would very much appreciate knowing more about the paper you found at Ole Miss.....this would definately be interesting reading. Most of the southland was involved in an agricultural lifestyle, though I do not think Tennessee was as predominate in the slave-owning element of society. That lifestyle was more representative of the larger plantation-type cultures found in the less hilly terrain.....Though I do know that the slaves had a definate input in the day-to-day life....As to using chains on the horses in the 1800's - I would most likely question that theory.
Basically, the horse we know today originated within the Middle baisin of Tennessee.....and is the direct result of the expertise and ingenuity of those men we fondly call the "Founding Fathers." The gait was referred to as the 'single foot gait' and the horse was called "The Horse From Tennessee, the single foot horse." My grandfather was noted for his Saddlehorses here in eastern NC. But when he wanted to enjoy an afternoon of riding, he chose "the horse from Tennessee." This I remember as a young girl - and I am WWII vintage........
To Saddletramp:
Dr. Bo and Martha, his wife who managed the kennels, were world renouned in the show dog world...they raised miniature pincers - had countless national champions and bred bitches from all over the world at their kennels in Birmingham. Later they began raising Skipper Keys (little captains). He also judged dog shows worldwide.......to and including Westminster on various occasions.
His Arabs were the Egyptain Arab, if I remember correctly. The Boshell family owned many world class Tennessee Walking Horses.......beginning in the 60's until his death.........He and his daughter competed......
He was world renouned for his knowledge concerning diabetes, a disease with which he was afflicted. His knowledge concerning endocrinology (interworkings of the glandular system of the body) caused him to lecture on every continent of the universe. He was a professor at UABirmingham and his chair at the University of Alabama was endowed by the Ruth Lawson Hanson Trust - of Birmingham News fame......... He built a hospital for treatment of diabetes, and is the only person whom I have every known that did such a feat..........
They had two children - only one of whom enjoyed the horses.
To Curly:
I remember Maxine as a fine lady, but were she to be with us today, I do think she could probably straighten out all the problems we now experience. She was dynamic, enthusiastic, educated, and certainly not bashful to express her opinion.......a real equestrian also.....

Sarah Lynn



Sarah Lynn,
It is good to hear from you. I've missed seeing you and talking about old times.
I hope people enjoy this thread that you started and relive many memories.
Tony in Georgia



Dear, sweet, wonderful, Tony. How I miss you.
I think this thread probably should actually be a forum...so many people have responded.....and we can talk about so many fantastic people and horses. Remember all the good times........
This Tennessee Walking Horse Industry has really enjoyed so much - the best of the best. And our breed continues to be the one that continues to grow. I feel sure that better days for our great horse lie ahead.
In the meantime, we can all chat here on the WHReport website. Thanks to David H. and Christy we can all share our memories. Even David Mason joins in. I would love to see him again.......actually, I would really like to see him astride a horse......again...

Sarah Lynn

Again...........feel free to comment.

If I am reading this correctly, someone calling themself "twistedtails" was telling "twhlady" [S.L. Bledsoe] about former slaves "juicing" pacers feet to get the desired gait back in the late 1800's. That's an amazing claim that I have never heard before! I expect the Vicksburg auction to which they refer was the one we had the video clip on several months ago [Ray Lum]. Does anyone know who "twistedtails" is or how to get their hands on the Ole Miss research paper? That is fascinating stuff!

Deltaboy,

Sorry if it's difficult to tell who is saying what. I had to edit a lot of junk out of it. I don't know who twistedtails is, but maybe somebody else on here might. Sounds a little far-fetched, but then again, maybe NOT???? He or she does sound as if they indeed stumbled onto something of great interest, but whether or not it has any merit, I can't say. I would love to read the research paper.

Christie Parsons of the WHR might possibly know the identity of twistedtails, if she would be willing to release that information.


By the way, here's an interesting link on Mule Racing on the Mississippi Delta:

http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/south/publish/missfolk/mfcurris/runmule.html

Concerning Juiced Feet,
I own one & recently there was a link placed on here to read online Pop Geers book, All I ever learned about Trotters & Pacers. Nothing in this book even hints at JUICING FEET. He did describe how he weighted down a pacers feet to turn him into a trotter though. Why would you want to sore a pacer, square him up & slow him down? The pacers were 10 to 20 seconds faster in a mile, back then.

Deltaboy I was told fixing started in Lebanon Tn by a colored trainer who passed it on to the Paschall brother. that what I was told. What have you heard? A good subject to run around the block.

RELLIE HEARN?

Here's something interesting I found concerning "Bob's Gypsy Rub" as mentioned in the first post on P. 2....

http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13333/3/ddnj03497.pdf

Rellie [sp?] Hearn is who I've heard from Sadlbum, Buddy Moore & others. I've heard he had a ramshackle old barn on the Knoxville Hwy with "tourist courts" up the hill that were used for dancing, gambling, & other forms of entertainment. Must have been quite an enterprise!


Very interesting articles about mule races in the Delta & about Bob's Gypsy Rub. Harold Council, mentioned in the article, was one of the first Walking Horse owners in the Delta. It has been mentioned on here before about Mr. Smith [owner of the big WH sale in Blytheville] selling Bob's Gypsy Rub. Looks like it caused him some trouble.

On Page 1, SLB asked this question:

"Were the first show rings round instead of an oval? "

I don't think anyone addressed this question. I have often wondered the same thing myself. I can't speak for the walking horse breed, but I do suspect the first Saddlebred rings were round instead of oval. I know that the Mercer County Fair in Harrodsburg, Ky claims to be the oldest County Fair in the nation and they had a perfectly round ring. I won the juvenile walking class there back in the 70's in that ring. It was strange, because you had to keep constantly turning all the time. The rail was made of concrete as I recall. This was the only show ring that I've ever seen that seated spectators inside the ring, as well as outside. Ushers escorted folks in and out of the inside of the ring in between classes and during timeouts. The grandstands were covered all the way around. It's a crying shame that grandstand burned down in the 80s because it was a real unique antique. It was rebuilt quite differently as an oval and burned partially again a few years back. The ring at Shelbyville, Ky was also round at one time. I've seen pictures of it. Supposedly, the very first recorded horse show ever held anywhere was in Lexington, Ky. I have been unable to find out any info on where exactly it was held, what types of horses showed there and what kind of ring was used.

Does anyone have any info on the physical shape of early Middle Tennessee horse show rings???

Deltaboy Mason and I made day trip to Rellie barn one day.It was a classic .Had poles on the out side walls to hold the walls up. Had two flat rocks in the hall. But it didn.t slow him up went he rode in it. Horse stalls where full about 2 to 3 ft. deep. Stall wall were just about gone.

Big D,

Were there "tourist courts" up the hill?

Yes it was up the hill about 3/4 to a mile. If it had been next to the tourist court I don't think they would got a lot of business.

Exactly where... was Rellies elite enterprise?

Smitty,
Concerning show rings. Around here in Mid Tn, On the 1st mon of the month, people with stallions, jacks & anything they wanted to trade off or sell, they'd bring to the Courthouse square. They would exhibit them by riding or leading them, back & forth on the street. Here in Manchester at the PostOffice is a giant mural that was painted by a WPA artist, that depicts this. It was moved from the old one to the new one at great expense. I believe that shows evolved from this & the County Fairs. I think some shows were held at Racetracks & the horses ridden back & forth in front of the Grandstand. Nec. being the mother of invention, I'd say they imporvised wherever they were at the time.

I reckon the courthouse thing was a Southern tradition. Here's some photos I found:


Scottsboro, Alabama


Mt. Sterling, Kentucky


Paris, Tennessee

(PAGE 3)

sable812

Curley,

I quit showing long ago. Slowely I have gotten ride of almost all my trophies and silver. One of the pieces I kept was a memorial trophey for Maxine Johnson. We I was showing she had a gray horse. I don't recall his name. She would show in MO and in Tn and get good ribbons.

I recall I won a traveling trophy the first year also. It was a very large tea set. She was well liked in Mo.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

howarddavidl

What an interesting thread - I thought all of you people had passed on.

The Ridgelea's Delight I remember was owned by a Mr. Lee (I can't remember his first name) from Madisonville, Tennessee. That's not to say that Forrest Cate didn't buy him and show him later.

Anybody remember Sheriff L. O. Ledford from Rossville, Georgia?
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Ridgelea's Delight and Forrest Cate won the Show Pleasure Championship at the 1977 Celebration.He was previously owned by J.D.Lee and trained by Bob Cooley.
Did Sheriff Ledford own Battleground Stables?I remember a good many trainers that worked horses there, Billy Brantly,Jim Babb and Paul Smith to name a few.Somehow I associate Sheriff Ledford's name with it, maybe he had horses there.
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Sable,
I think Maxine used to show a horse named Midnight Blue,is that the one you were thinking of? He was trained by Floyd Posenke.
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sable812

It was Midnight Blue and Floyd. Thanks for the memories.
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twhlady

Sherrif Ledford owned Battleground Stables in Ft. Oglethorpe - just outside Chattanooga. He also was the father of Gloria Spencer.....who was the wife of Bruce Spencer. Bruce published the Voice magazine until it was sold to Bobby Sands - who in turn sold it to TWHBEA.
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howarddavidl

Bruce actually sold the VOICE to Bobby and Jim Akers and they ultimately sold it to the TWHBEA. Billy Brantley, Jim Babb and Paul Smith were among the trainers who worked at Battleground.

I rode my first walking horse there - Setting Sun's Appollo, a many time World Champion.
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twhlady

David:

Please give us an update on Lynn Doughty.....I know there was a tragic event in the Doughty family from Mobile, AL, I think. Do you know anything of her? She won the pony class at the Celebration many times on Appollo.

Your mentioning riding Appollo brought so many memories to my mind - the workout between Billy Brantley and Mr. Charlie Waters' horse at Rossville, GA....and I think Buddy Hugh rode Mr. Charlie's horse. As I remember he was white and maybe his name was something with Cotton Queen in it? Or maybe it was Shadow's Cotton King. By the time the workout was over, the white horse was pink.......

Your memory has to be better than mine when it comes to names. I bet if David Mason sees this post, he can give all the info right along with you.

David - just think of all the great people who are gone! And just think of all the people and horses whose lives your paper has presented and promoted.

Sarah Lynn
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jwalker

Speaking Of David Mason, I used to have a early photo of the Super Stock when he was a two-year-old. I thought he was Great even at that age. Unfortunately I never got to see him in person. Also, what ever happened to Miss Betty Sain? I saw her ride Shaker's Shocker at the 1970 World's grand Championship class. I never did hear of her riding any other horses after that, to my knowledge.
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jwalker

Buddy Hugh used to show a white horse named Shadow's Cotton King. I think he was a World Champion two or three year old back in the 1960's. Doug Wolaver had the horse named Cotton Queen's Go Boy.
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Buddy Hugh and Shadow's King Cotton won the Junior Stake in 1965. At that time he was owned by Dewey Arnold of Shelbyville, and later sold to Mr. Waters.Shaker's Shocker was reserve to King Cotton.That was the last year that Jr. horses were 3 y.o.s the next year,1966, a junior horse was a 4 y.o.Shaker's Shocker won the 4 y.o.stud class and bypassed the Jr. championship and won the big stake in 66. Man Of Rhythm and Boyd Hudgins won the Jr. Stake that year.
Setting Sun's Apollo, in addition to being a Wc and WGC pony several times over, was also WGC 2 y.o. in 1964.

Saddle Tramp
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Betty Sain is living in Manchester, TN. She doesn't have any horses at this time.

twhlady
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Moonglow - Who was the lady that owned Man of Rhythm? I can see her now.........just cannot remember the name.
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When Man Of Rhythm won the junior championship he was owned by C.R.Hardage. He was later sold and shown by a lady from Ga. and I think her name was Blanche Thomas.

makethecut
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genmusic,

It is refreshing for someone to be able to admit what you did. Very grown up. I get so tired of people fussing about shows that were sooooo bad, and usually it was because they didn't win.

twhlady
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Now that we are chatting about Boyd, what was the name of the big strawberry roan that Sherene Parks showed for so long..........always got a big chunk at whatever show he competed......(gelding, I think)???
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I don't know that one, but the gelding I most associate with Boyd was the one called Sweetpea.

Michael J
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Someone asked earlier about the book by Bob Womack. My wife got it for me last Christmas from World Champion. You can check their website or call them & see if they have any more.

makethecut
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Now that we are going down memory lane, does any one remember the old Shelbyville PTA show that was held in (I think) 1970, that Boyd Hudgins judged. It had possibly the best mare class of all time with Mr. C.A. Bobo on Go Boy's Black Angel and Dude Crowder(I think) on Rock-a-Bye Lady. What a class.
We had horses at Boyd's barn at the time and I remember him saying that he didn't know why they did that to him(LOL).
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Another trivia question; What multi titled WC and WGC was originally named Son Of Midnight Sun?

twhlady
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I believe the Shelbyville PTA Show evolved to become the Fun Show. Is this correct?

howarddavidl
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twhlady,

You are correct - the Celebration paid the PTA for the rights to host the show and renamed it the Fun Show.

broomman
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I have a photo with Steve Hill on Talk of the Town with a tail brace.

dani
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Moonglow66
I believe that would be "Talk Of The Town", wasn't he also named at one time "Midnight's Scooter"?
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dani, you got it. He was originally named Son Of Midnight Sun, then Midnight's Scooter, and also Gregory Peck before he got the name he is famous for. He went through several owners and had an outlaw reputation before Steve Hill got him. Steve Hill was known to tame a lot of unruly horses. Hill's Perfection, Mister Sensation and Merry Wilson were all known to be hard to handle, but Steve Hill mastered them all.

Plenty of "fodder" for conversation on Page 3....

Maxine Johnson, Forrest Cate, Sheriff L.O. Ledford, Jim Babb, Paul Smith, Billy Brantley, Floyd Posenke, Bruce Spencer, Bobby & Jim Akers, Bobby Sands, Betty Sain, Boyd Hudgins, Lynn Doughty, Blanche Thomas, Sherene Parks, Dewy Arnold, Battleground Stables, Shelbyville PTA Show, Ridglea's Delight, Midnight Blue, Setting Sun's Apollo, Shadow's King Cotton, Shaker's Shocker, Sweetpea, Midnight Scooter........

Feel free to comment.

Here's a inspirational article on Forrest Cate from a Church Newsletter, circa 1974:


Blind Baptist Layman Views Life With Spiritual Eyes

By Roy McDonald Exum

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (BP)--Forrest Cate 1s a Ford dealer here. A Baptist layman who shows horses, he Is also a cattle fanner and owns II The Church G01ngest Dog in the County. Cate is blind. Chattanooga's "Little Profit Dealer" has been blind for about five years yet continues to run his Ford dealership. In addition. he has made over 150 talks during the last two years and has been booked soUd since the beginning of 1974. Every month. he tells more than half a dozen churches. schools and civic groups about how he has depended on God for strength and how God has taught him to use his affliction to benefit others. Although his church is not SaC-affiliated, he often speaks in Southern Baptist churches. Brought up in what he describes as a "fine Baptist home" Cate' 5 childhood was fairly normal except for the nutaance of sugar diabetes. he says. A big step in faith forC8te was when he fell in love with a former Miss Chattanooga. Maroia Stolpmann, a Catholic, while attending the University of Chattanooga. "We broke up about five times and just figured there was no solution for our differences in religion. But we asked the Lord to work things out since we really were in love. Before
we knew 1t, we were getting married in the Catholic Church. "Today we are both members of the Daytona Heights Baptist Church in Chattanooga, " he adds without further detail. When the Ford Motor Company decided that the Chattanooga area could use another dealership in 1965, Forrest Cate and his father decided to try for it. Ford awarded them the dealership. but the next year Cate's father died. Forrest decided
to go ahead with the plans.

In 1968 Forrest Cate Ford moved into 1ts new plant. Cate was selling cars; he had a beautiful wife, three children, and a lovely home; and he was involved in showing horses. Then tragedy struck.
"The kids and I were at a horse show and I bent over to paint a pony's hooves. When I straightened up, my eyesight was blurred." he explained. A year and a half later he was completely blind , Cate had been afflicted with diabetic retinopathy, a condition caused by ruptured blood vessels in his eyes. "You can imagine what I tried to do to keep my sight," he said. "A doctor in town had read an article about argon laser beam treatment, and I was in New York taking treatments lmmediately. " In one year he made ten trips to New York and had two operations. The blurring continued and worsened until he was totally blind. The doctors told him there was nothing they could do. Cate kept coming to his office and trying to work, "but it seemed almost fruitless." he admitted. Then a friend suggested that Cate get a seeing-eye dog. He traveled to Columbus, Ohio, to get the dog, and say s "I don't mind telling you I was scared. It was really spooky going anywhere by myself since I had become completely blind. But in Columbus I met Romulus and it was worth it." Romulus, a 75-pound Labrador Retriever, is Cate's "left-hand dog," also known as "The Church-Goingest Dog in the County. "Cate began to ask God to help him, "Just like anybody who lost his sight would," he says. "But I asked Him to use me for something. Don't make me go through this for nothing, " he prayed. Shortly after, he heard a Chattanooga Presbyterian minister give a sermon on afflictions, and it changed Cate's life. Cate began giving his talks. "You see me now--I am nothing. Without that dog I can't even get outside," he tells his audiences. "One has no assurance of tomorrow, but the Lord has promised He'll take care of us. I am what I am by the grace of God and the people around me. "

Since his total blindness, Cate has learned to ride horses again and in 1972 became the first totally blind person to show a Walking Horse. He continues to operate his business as well as a 400-acre cattle ferm , "I have 141
employees at Forrest Cate Ford, and I know that having a blind boss makes things a little tougher on everyone of them. " A friend of the family, who was eligible to retire the year Cate lost his sight, brings him to work every morning. Cate's secretary reads the mail to him, and his horse trainer takes him home every afternoon. "I appreciate the fact that the Ford Motor Company has enough faith in me to let me continue to operate in a dealer's capacit y, a guy who could be the only blind dealer in the world," Cate says. For the past three years, his dealership has won the Ford Motor Company's Distinguished Award for recognition of highest performance in sales and service of Ford products. Sometimes people come in to see him, not realizing he is blind, and say,"Mr. Cate,look at this. " "I just get excited and imagine I am looking. I think it is funny when people make a
mistake like that and wish they wouldn't feel self-conscious about it. It doesn't bother me," he says. Cate's faith has helped him, and he wants to use it to help others. Lots of people have it a lot tougher than he does, he feels, and says, "i f I can give one person some encouragement or motivation--point one person to the Lord-s-then it makes all I have done worthwhile. "I believe that life doesn't stop when we die here. I ain't always gonna' be this way.

Someday I will see again."

Here's a rather humorous and bizarre story about Betty Sain, written by Katie Allison Granju of Knoxnews.com:

When I was a little girl, growing up on a farm in Bell Buckle, TN, our across-the-road neighbor was Betty Sain, a wonderfully eccentric equestrienne, who was the first woman to ever win the Tennessee Walking Horse World Grand Championship. Betty ran her horse-breeding and training operation all by herself, and among her many critters, she kept a number of goats.

Well, at some point in the late 1970s or early 80s, her goats started disappearing. She started watching at night, and soon realized that they were being snatched and eaten by coyotes. She talked to some neighbors, and found that they, too, were having problems with coyotes attacking their livestock. So she contacted the state wildlife authorities, and explained that she believed the coyote population in that area was on the increase, and that farmers needed help. She was told repeatedly that the wildlife experts had assessed the situation, and that there simply were no coyotes in that region of Middle Tennessee. They told her condescendingly that she was mistaken, and that what she was seeing around her farm were feral dogs.

She tried and tried to explain to them that she certainly knew the difference between a dog and a coyote, but they continued to blow her off. So she decided to prove to the wildlife folks that there were coyotes in Bedford County. She laid in wait for several nights until she was finally able to pick off a coyote with her .22 rifle. Then she decapitated the beast, wrapped up its head in plastic, put the shrink-wrapped head in a box, gift-wrapped the box, and sent it to the main guy who had been telling her that there were no coyotes on her farm. The note said, "Here is an imaginary coyote for you."

(PAGE 4)


saddle

Where are you? we are in paducah,ky.we stand 4 stallions,one of which is probably one of the last still at stud sired by Ebony's Senator,bottom side is Wilson Allen II.
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broomman

Symsonia, KY

www.hensonbrooms.com
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Saddle Tramp

What amateur show horse and famous breeding stallion was named Elmer's Copper Coin?
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dani

Had to think about that one, Elmer's Copper Coin....Sounds like Dr. Elmer is the sire......The only ones that pop into my mind is The Specialist, or Doc's High Tribute.
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twhlady

When remembering Talk of the Town, I must mention seeing John Young carry the flag at a show in Resaca, GA in the late 60's or early 70's. At that time the horse was owned by Buford Chitwood from Rescaa.

I also remember Emmett Guy one year at the Celebration announcing a horse owned by the Chitwood family and ridden (probably) by Hank Chitwood, as being owned "somewhere in Georgia" - when Emmett evidently either could not read or pronounce the name of the town....or perhaps he did it simply for conversation and laughs - Emmett was noted for getting us all to laugh.

I assume the Chitwood family owned the old champion at the time of his death.

Other questions: Who owned Pride's Apil Love when Albert Lee Rowland rode her and placed reserve to Buford Ellington's mare that Bob Burris Sr. rode to the mare title? And what was the name of Gov. Ellington's mare?

And thinking about great mares brings another thought to mind. Whatever happened to the significance of the mares? Seems as if they lost a lot of recognition with the advent of 'no canter'and all the specialty classes, and so many classes for women on stallions. I can remember times when mares were contenders for the big one.........The Saddle Horse industry still places tremendous emphasis on their mares.....

And this brings up another thought. When my kids competed as youth (juveniles they were called back then) they had to canter no matter how young they were.

Is this progress? Sometimes I wonder.

Sarah Lynn

Note: Pride's April Love was not sired by Pride of Midnight. Her sire was Pride of Panola...
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makethecut

Mr. Chitwood did own Talk of the Town at the time of his death. I was given the chance to ride him when he was probably 25 years old. It is still one of the biggest thrills of my life.
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C. Biscuit

Gov. Ellington's mare was Sun's Queen Cathy. Fashion Two Twenty might have owned April Love, I think they did own her although not sure of when.
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(Unknown)

When April Love was reserve in the mare class she was owned by Martin Grill Meat Co. from Gadsden Al.
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(Unknown)

The year Shaker's Shocker won the Celebration he qualified in the junior stallion class. Who won the aged stallion class that year?
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grits

I was surfing the web and ran across a web site for camp miles sylvania this was associated with joe webb, it also mentioned webb book sales and gave a street address and the price of $39.95 for the training and care of the walking horse by joe webb does anyone know if this still exist. No phone number was given...
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jdmess

SARAH LYNN YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN- JIM MESSENGER WAS THE TRAINER WHEN MR & MRS ROPER CELEBRATED THEIR 50TH ANNIVERSARY. MR ROPER PASSED AWAY IN 1977 AT THE AGE OF 83. MRS ROPER WAS IN HER LATE 90'S WHEN SHE PASSED AWAY.

PREACH'S CUSTOMER WAS R D KEENE. MR. KEENE PASSED AWAY FEW YEARS BEFORE MR. ROPER DID. MR. BRADSHAW ALSO PASSED AWAY BEFORE MR. FRANK.

ALL THREE L FRANK ROPER, R D KEENE & CHARLIE BRADSHAW HAD GREAT HORSES AND RODE THEM WELL. THEY LOVED SHOWING AGAINST EACH OTHER.
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twhlady

I remember vividly all those great and fantastic supporters of our breed.

Jim Messenger, please forgive my error - placing M/M Roper in Preach's barn.........All those FL folks were wonderful to know, and great to remember.

I LOVED THE SUNSHINE CIRCUIT.........

Sarah Lynn
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Rapunzil

Just wanted to tell you all I am in awe of this thread! I'm a Yankee Northerner up in NJ w/ 2 Walkers - not very many of them up here. This thread fulfills a lot of the info I've been aching for and could not find! I've had my horses for 3 years and read the book by Joe Webb and wondered where I could possibly find more information about training like they did in the old days.....

Dave Mason you are my HERO! I couldn't believe it when I saw your name here! Would you mind suggesting a good trainer for lite-shod horses in today's world? You can email me directly at im-rapunzil@verizon.net.

Thank you all for contributing to this forum - it has been a great pleasure reading it!

Cynthia in NJ
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Mason

I am SO out of touch I wouldn't have a clue who to send you to. I've been attending Saddlebred Shows for several yrs and haven't been to a WALKOFF in 5-6 yrs.I understand there are some good lite shod horses and trainers out there.

David Mason
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(Unknown)

Rapunzil,
I show flat shod and I might be able to reccommend someone in your area if you will send your e mail address we can discuss it.
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dani

What was Barracuda's original name?

Dani
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(Unknown)

What was The Super Stock's original name?
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Saddle Tramp

Bob Medina would be the one to know about Barracuda. I believe he use to own and show him.
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jwalker

Talking about the canter, I can remember that won or lost a lot of classes for people. Yes, even the youth had to canter. In 1970 Delight's Magic Bay was reserve World Grand Champion and the reason he could never win the World's Grand Champion Stake is that he could not canter. Jack Johnson was his trainer in 1970 and I think in 1971 he was shown by Joe Webb in the stake class and he still couldn't canter for nothing. He was shown up until 1973. I wonder if anyone knows what ever happened to him. I never did see him at stud.
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saddie

the Super Stock's original name was Mr. Determination.
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(Unknown)

What WGC was originally named Midnight Sincerity?
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Rapunzil

Dave Mason - Thank you for replying to my inquiry. A pleasure to "chat" with you! I'm curious to know what attracted you to Saddlebreds and no longer into Walkers... I love your picture in Nicole Carswell's book - OMG what a horse your on!

Moonglow - I would love to hear from you. My email address is im-rapunzil@verizon.net I certainly appreciate any help as I'm always trying to learn more about the breed and training.

Saddle Tramp - Funny thing, Bob Medina lives only about 25 minutes from me, but I wouldn't know who he was if I walked into him! Up here in NJ there are no TWH shows so I've never run into him. Even though I show "locally," up here that means PA, VA & MD. From what I understand, Bob spends a lot of time down there in Tennessee - Lucky guy! If only I could find a job in my field down there, I'd move to middle Tennessee in a heartbeat!
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saddie

B. Major Wilson was first named Midnight Sincerity.
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J441

Moonglow, didn't Sam Paschal on Jonny Midnight win the class? I remember how Betty successfully tempted Sam into a race in the big stake...something we never dreamed would happen. Betty came out on top of that one!
David, I remember Sherrif Ledford, but there again I was born & raised in Rossville, GA. Graduated high school there in 1974.
Speaking of Rossville, does anyone remember the great shows that were held in the old RHS football field? I remember Wink Groover, Harold Kennedy, John Young, Jimmy Brown and others winning there. Road pony exhibitors included R.B. Hickey, Al Miller, Captain Lucas and others.
Nearby Lakeview School had some great shows too. I remember the year Wink Groover won on Ace's Sensation.
Randall Rollins was a big owner in those days & owned Sugarloaf Farms. Very nice guy. He had a daughte who was reportedly killed by a lightning surge while talking on the phone to Nancy White, daughter of Faye White and later Faye Smith when she married Paul.
Faye wrote a column in the local paper called "Horses and People".
I first met David Howard at some of these shows. Of course, David is YEARS older than me....
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kywalker

This is a GREAT thread. Much to my wife's sorrow, I have gone to the storage shed and brought some of my old TWH magazines inside to re-read. I found my February, 1978, Western Horseman Magazine, with my daughters picture advertising the versatility of the TWH. I think this was the start of the TWHBEA program.

Fulton, KY says hello, broom-man...

Several of the questions above went unanswered.

Q: grits

I was surfing the web and ran across a web site for camp miles sylvania this was associated with joe webb, it also mentioned webb book sales and gave a street address and the price of $39.95 for the training and care of the walking horse by joe webb does anyone know if this still exist. No phone number was given...

A: "This was an equestrian camp focused on Tennessee Walking Horses, located in Lamar, Arkansas. It started in 1966 and I believe it ran through the early 80's. It ran for two, two week sessions in June and July each year, and culminated in a camp horse show. Joe Webb, the camp director, trained and showed two World Grand Champions, but was always great with all the camp kids, probably because he had five of his own (who all worked as counselors during the 70's)."
-Laura T.