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smitty
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PostSubject: Trivia Archive 5   Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:46 am

Here's a new thread I thought I'd introduce. Seems we rarely discuss the old ORIGINS of the TWH and I think it's a fascinating topic.
Somebody get us started here.....


Last edited by smitty on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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senator69

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PostSubject: history of Tenn. Walking horse   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:33 pm

I wonder how many of us on here are old enough to have seen some of the foundation horses of our Breed?
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Everett

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:47 pm

Come on Deltay Boy and Sadlbum you two guys have some Knowledge
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:46 pm

I remember seeing Midnight Sun. I think he was at Vic Thompson's stallion barn.

The first stake class at the Celebration that I really remember was won by Ace's Sensation. I believe that a bay horse riden by Jack Johnson tied second. Wasn't this horse's name "Magic Bay"? And I really liked the bay horse better than Ace. Dad won $1.00 off of me that night, but I learned never to pick one horse and let someone else have the field!
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:23 pm

It was Delight's Magic Bay owned by Link Spainhour from NC
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:31 pm

Thank you, Bubbadog. That was one of my earliest memories of the Big Stake.
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Old Graymare

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:00 pm

Bubbadog, was that the horse that died in the warm-up ring? OK, so I will tell my age and you will know why I am an OLD Graymare!! The first Championship I remember is that of White Star, 1954. Of course, I was VERY young then. :) I picked her to win (probably because she was white) and thus began a love affair with the TWH that has lasted all these years. The other thing I remember about that night was that we were parked on the hill overlooking the ring and sat on the hood of our car to watch the class. I could never quite figure out that memory until Smitty posted some pictures of the Celebration grounds from that era and I could finally understand where we were. I have some vague memories of Winston Wiser and Go Boy's Shadow. But Vic and Sun's Jet Parade and Mr. Sam and Setting Sun are vivid memories. I made a scrapbook and sent it to the Rodgers for Rodgers' Perfection and followed Mack K's Handshaker the entire show season. There was a long span of years when I didn't miss a night. Then I got married and was away for a time. I was back again by the mid-80's and I don't think I have missed more than one since then. I guess Sun's Delight is still my pick as the "walkingest SHOW horse" to win a Championship, although there have been some others close on his heels. I remember the packed stands and how empty and sad it looked last year. Lots and lots of Celebration memories, including showing a mare and colt one year... my only showring appearances ever.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:25 am

I'm trying to research some of the Kentucky ties to the formation of the breed. We know that Allan F-1 came from Lexington, Ky, where he was a failed trotter. I have been trying to find out who owned him and where he lived, but have had no luck. He may have lived at the trotting track or one of the Standardbred farms outside of Lexington. I also saw the papers from the Saddlebred Giovanni, who contributed much "fineness" to the look of the breed. Turns out he was bred right here in Woodford County, where I live, but I've been unable to find out where.

On another note: I was reading a book about the Cherokee Indian nation over in the Smokey Mtns. It seems the Indians would go down in the Carolinas and steal horses, then take them to the reservation in the Smokies where they were somewhat protected from prosecution by the law. They then would ride them out the other side of the mountains into Tennessee over to Nashville, where they sold them.

Kind of a wacky theory..............but is it possible the TWH is a descendant of STOLEN HORSES????
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deltaboy

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:51 am

Of course whole books have been written on this subject, but here is a four sentence version. In 1903 Mr. James Brantley purchased Allan [later F-1] for $110.00 & began breeding him to native Tennessee pacing mares from the Hal, Brooks, Copperbottom, Pilot, Grey John, Bullet, & Mountain Slasher families. He got many fine saddle horses from these crosses, but most importantly he got Roan Allen, Hunter's Allen, & Merry Legs. In many ways Roan Allen is the "real" foundation sire of the TWH since almost every modern Walking Horse traces to him through Wilson's Allen or Merry Boy. The national competition created by the institution of the Celebration really brought the offspring of Wilson's Allen & Merry Boy to prominence & left the others behind.


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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:16 am

DB,

Were the Hal, Brooks, Copperbottom, Pilot, Grey John, Bullet, & Mountain Slasher families all geographically located in the same general area?
I've read the Walker's West entries on these families, but I'd like to know more about them.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:42 am

Smitty,

According to Mr. Ben Green's book, Biography of the Tennessee Walking Horse, Allan was bred by E.H. Kerr of Lexington & was foaled in 1886. Mr. Kerr sold Allan & his dam, Maggie Marshall to George H. Ely of Elyria, Ohio in 1887. Because of Allen's eventual failure as a trotter [he preferred to pace], Mr. Fly sent him back to Lexington to be sold at auction. He was sold on Feb. 12, 1892 at "Bransfield & Company's Public Sale of Thoroughbred & Standardbred Horses" [at Tattersalls] to John P. Mankin of Murfreesboro, Tenn. for $335. He lived in obscurity until he was purchased by Mr. Brantley in 1903. He died in 1910 the propery of Albert Dement.

Many of the Hal family of pacers were located in Maury, Williamson, & Giles counties of Tennessee. Star Pointer, the first horse to pace the two minute mile [1897], was from the Hal family. He was foaled just norh of Spring Hill. His record was broken by the incomparable Dan Patch [foaled in Indiana]. Dan Patch lowered his own record several times & then it was broken by Billy Direct in 1938, another Hal-bred foaled at what later became Haynes Haven just south of Spring Hill. I believe Tom Hal F-20 was foaled in Marshall County, lived much of his life in Maury & Williamson counties & died in northern Giles County. Tom Hal sired Little Brown Jug [for whom the race is named], Brown Hal, & many other great "Tennesseee pacers". According to Dr. Womack's The Echo of Hoofbeats, the Copperbottom family came from Kentucky to Davidson & Wilson counties in Tenn., the Brooks family was prominent in northern Bedford County, the Grey Johns in Lincoln Co., & the Bullets in Williamson & Davidson counties. Of course many of these families had their origins in Virginia, the Carolinas, & Kentucky.


Last edited by deltaboy on Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:42 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:20 am

Smitty, Deltaboy & Others,
About 2 weeks ago my wife & I went loafing & ended up at Gossburg, We took a picture of what Charlie Brantley had showed me was Bud Messicks farm. This is where Wilson Allen was foaled. We might try to post the photo.
The story about F1 wanting to trot instead of pace is interesting. I have Pop Geers book that was written in that same era & it seems pacers were the favorite in this area back then, at least they were fastest. Pop Geers drove Hal horses that were predecessors of TWH's. He has a monument in Columbia, but was born in Wilson Co. where CA BoBo & the Bradshaws came from. BlackFantasy is mistaken about seeing Midnight sun at Vics Stallion stables but saw Merry Go Boy instead, Sensation61's Dad owned Him in a syndicate. If any of Yall have access to Jimmy Joe Murrays The TWH magazines, there are many good articles in them by Him, the Hunters, Mr Luna & WJ McGill about the early foundation horses. Deltaboy an mebbe some of Yall have seen the sire of at least 1 foundation horse. Merry Boy sired Ed Nowlin F5. The reason Merry Boy wasn't a foundation horse was because, foundation horses were all dead when they were selected as such. Walkers West has a VERY GOOD website on the TWH. I invited its owner to visit us when I saw Her at the Wiser farm sale last fall.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:28 am

SB,

I never saw Merry Boy in person. I do have some interesting photos of him from his time in Mississippi. Also, there were two fillies registered by him out of one of our mares when I know she never got any closer to him than 250 miles.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:52 pm

Found this on "Pop" Geers, thanks to Ms. Sarah Elizabeth Hickman.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3jMRD32R_Y - 57k

http://news-from-mtsu.blogspot.com/2007/09/102-student-revives-legacy-of-national.html
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:56 pm

SB, Mr. Brown, who lives at Hillsboro and owns Armed and Dangerous, took us on a tour of this old barn
before you go up the Monteagle mountain. Do you happen to know what legendary horse was there?
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:07 am

CB,

Wilson's Allen?


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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:11 am

CB - We are sniffing around trying to get the answer to your question but how about a better hint? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Sorry   Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:27 am

Sorry for the mistake. I was VERY young at the time. Will try to do better in the future, but I am sure that I saw Midnight Sun. Maybe I wasn't at Vic's at the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:33 pm

BF...I bet you saw OLE SUN at the historic "Harlinsdale Farm". SADLBUM posted some Harlinsdale photo's awhile back, and they may refresh your memory. Only problem, I believe they were on the old board.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:18 pm

CB,
That would have been BF Wilsons barn at Pelham. He owned Wilson Allen the sire of WGC's Strolling Jim, Haynes Peacock, City Girl, Melody Maid & Midnight Sun. I went to High School with George B. & am a year older than him. By the way He has a set of Blueribbon Yearbooks for sale. Complete 1939 thru 2008, good condition.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:20 am

Let's see if someone can name a Standardbred, Thoroughbred, Saddlebred and Morgan who were key breeding contributors to the TWH.......

Question
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The Man in Black

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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:36 am

Hambletonian,Pacelot and Bullett.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:39 am

Left out the saddlebred and there were a bunch of them like Denmark and Copperbottom and Bourbon King.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:23 am

Now that Man in Black is comfortable, he's going to monopolize thangs.
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PostSubject: Re: Trivia Archive 5   Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:34 pm

Go for it Jimmy, throw some stuff at us
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